The Way We Roll
A seriously funny take on life from the disability driven duo... Simon Minty and Phil Friend.
The Way We Roll
It hurts my head and saddens my heart - NHS, disability and being trapped in your own flat
Phil speaks of his disheartening recent experiences at A&E at his local NHS hospital. We grapple with the oh-so-simple task of trying to make the NHS better, as it feels like it’s broken, and how that can break us.
A previous guest and friend of the pod, Abbi Brown, was recently trapped in her flat for days. The lift in her block was broken, and although there was another lift, it was beyond a locked door, and her property managers refused her access. Abbi is a wheelchair user and has now regained her independence. We talk about the nonsensical rules, why people avoid making decisions and the feeling of powerlessness and fury when we’re trapped.
Finally, a brief look at the DWPs Disability Confidence. Reports show it’s not making a difference.
Links
The NHS is Broken Wes Streeting MP
Disability Debrief - Disability Confidence not changing anything
Announcer 0:10
This is The Way We Roll presented by Simon Minty and Phil Friend. You can email us at mintyandfriend@gmail.com or just search for minty and friend on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.
Simon Minty 0:30
Hello, and welcome to The Way We Roll with me Simon Minty.
Phil Friend 0:34
And me, Phil Friend.
Simon Minty 0:36
How are you? Well, Mr. Friend
Phil Friend 0:37
I am. I am as well as can be expected, Mr. Minty. But I do have a story to tell, which is health related, although not about me. But otherwise, I'm fine. Yes, I'm enjoying the lovely weather we've been having. And what about you? How are you?
Simon Minty 0:52
I'm pretty good. Thank you. Yes, I'm fine.
Phil Friend 0:56
Busy, keeping busy.
Simon Minty 0:58
I am busy. But I'm getting towards the end because of a break. So it's that kind of stress at last minute, put your put your out of office on at least two days before you go. Because otherwise you get things coming in the last two hours saying could you complete this by next Wednesday? No.
Phil Friend 1:15
I did read one of those time management T books things that we all read. I mean, the self help industry is amazing, isn't it? They keep reinventing. But on this one. It said if we if we worked as hard as we do two days before we go on a holiday, we'd be the most efficient people on the planet. You know how you do that, though don't you. You throw yourself into all the stuff you've been putting off, you just go for it and get it done.
Simon Minty 1:39
But also, I would have major heart problems because it's too stressful. I do not like that last minute thing.
Phil Friend 1:47
You'd lost about a month and then you'd have a coronary
Simon Minty 1:49
I want to ease into it. Well, tell me about your
Yes. Well, just briefly for our listener. My wife Sue bless her.
I'm so sorry. We forgot to say this. And we were gonna have a guest everybody this show but unfortunately, our guest couldn't make it and the very last minute. So Phil and I, if you indulge us, we're coming up with a couple of stories that were unplanned compared to normal.
Phil Friend 2:20
makes it so that we will be able to planned when actually we do tend to do some prep to be fair. But yeah, this is a little bit off the hoof on the hoof but is the expression on the hoof. Sue my wife woke up recently with double vision, but classically, not that sort of slightly blurry thing she was seeing two of everything at distances and stuff. So we went along to have this investigated to cut a very, very long story short, we were referred eventually to A&E in the good old health service. And we spent, I think, nearly eight hours sampling that experience. And the long and the short of it was that they admitted Sue so that she could have an MRI. And this is in a sense where the story begins. Because the reason they admitted her for an MRI was because it would take six months to get one if she was an outpatient. And if you've got some kind of, they wondered about a stroke as whether that might be the issue. In order to look at that carefully, you need to do it pretty quickly. So MRI six months later aren't much use. Sue spent a night in hospital, the MRI and all the other tests they did were negative, which is great news, but still she has double vision. And so still, we're now having to go through slightly different routes to get that investigated. So that's what brings up the issue for me. And it's, it is in some ways, classically NHS, but in other ways. I was a bit shocked by other things which maybe I could get into in a bit. Anyway. Sorry, Simon, did you want to ask me something? You were looking like you were gonna say something?
Simon Minty 4:06
No, I made some notes because I thought you might talk for 10 minutes and I'd forget all the questions that I had as they came up. What What's your sort of overriding feeling or?
Phil Friend 4:20
I think everybody that listens to this programme will know and anybody who comes across this by accident will know that the NHS is in a mess. We were in the middle of an election and one of the most the highest up the list of priorities is the NHS. So there I am in A&E having been through an eye clinic with Sue first which was not a difficult experience and was reasonably okay. You know, a few people hanging around. You get into A&E and it's like a warzone. This is a Wednesday morning and what hit me was sitting, watching others in various forms of major distress, ie pain, or major distress because they didn't know what was going on or major distress because they were being dealt with publicly. So for example, people being given drips and drips stands while they sat in the chairs, people having their observations done blood pressure, temperature, all that stuff done. amongst all the other people. There were one or two people, clearly who had, who were very distressed, who were calling out and making all sorts of noises. And in the middle of this, Sue, and I sat at with our own concerns and anxieties and so on. And the thought that struck me was, would it be like this? If the GP services worked better? How many of these people would not been in that room had they been able to go and see a GP? So that was a question I have no answer to it. But I asked the question. The system itself so when we arrived, we had a letter, which we were told to give to the senior nurse Well, the first thing it's impossible to know the senior nurses because they don't wear uniforms mainly. And also there was they were all rushing about doing stuff. So we couldn't hand out a letter to whoever but we met someone at the door who was called a streaming. I have no idea what that means. I you know, I'm not an idiot. But I You tell me what does streaming mean? Does this this this do do "A" levels we've been separated out by IQ or what I've no idea?
Simon Minty 6:53
Is it a new, like triage when they kind of decide where to send you but you're right streaming? I always think of different lanes. Normally, for us it was educational capability was Yeah, but this is
Phil Friend 7:06
I to this day, don't know what it means. It was somebody looking like a nurse at the streaming station.
Simon Minty 7:12
It might be faster, medium and slow streams depending on severity.
Phil Friend 7:17
Yeah, I mean, if you if they could visibly see your arm was hanging off, they might refer you quickly, somewhat slow, slow, straight up so slow.Are you bleeding quick or slow? So we went, we were told to go to reception. So we had our letter, and we handed that to reception and reception then did what reception did, which I still don't know. But they then did stuff. And then we were told we will be triaged. So the streaming thing that I thought was triaging wasn't triaging. I, some other general observations, we arrived at whatever time nine ish, half, nine. And when we left at five to be admitted to the wards, the same nursing staff that were there when we arrived was still there when we left. So these people were working 12 hours, nonstop. And whatever I feel about the system, the people never stopped. They were working all the time. I heard one young nurse say at some point to somebody else, I'm gonna take a break for a bite to eat. And that, you know, but within half an hour, she was back. I was visibly shaken by the fact that these all these people were just, I mean, you know, you go to a restaurant and you ask the question down what they're how many miles serving staff in restaurants walk in a day, you know, you look at nursing staff in a casualty unit, my God, and all I was seeing was the bit for the walking wounded. I was not seeing what was going on in the cardiac bit of A&E and all that trauma areas of A&E But when we were taken through to the main hospital, we had to go through those areas. And sure enough, it wasn't rammed but there was a lot of people on trolleys being looked after by staff when we went through. So all of that was going on as well. At no point during the day are you think the thing that I know everybody complains about is the lack of information you're not told, because they're so bloody busy, they haven't got time to sit down and chat to you about why they're doing this or what this means or whatever. So only when you get to see the doctor or a senior nurse that you get some sense of what this is all about. And when it was casually mentioned at about half past four that the senior registrar thought it might be a good idea to admit Sue that came out like a bolt out of the blue we completely not accepted understanding that. So it was a picture of organized chaos with staff on their knees. And this is a Wednesday. It's not the pubs haven't slung out Do you know what I mean? It was like, there had been an emergency nearby. And all these people have come here to be looked after and treated. And for those that were distressed, physically and clearly emotionally distressed, they were there all day to seven, eight hours. The average wait was six, seven hours. It was it was horrendous. Soone disability related thing.
Simon Minty 10:27
Oh, hello, it got back to the theme of the podcast.
Phil Friend 10:29
And all of this is kind of linked, isn't it? A young woman in a wheelchair, who was displaying some very unusual behaviors, and I think had some form of neurological issue neurodiverse issue. She had her laptop and she was watching some kind of cartoons or games on it was quite loud. She had again, very unusual movements, she made noises, she clapped and shouted and things like that she was with her mum, I think. And a mum was obviously very attentive. And, and, and I watched the reactions of other patients, as this young woman was doing whatever she was doing. And I'm not unused to seeing people like that. But they clearly were. And that raised their anxiety levels because they didn't know whether they should, you know, it was unusual. They were all in this situation. But that was in the the eye clinic that wasn't in the main casualty area. So but it was interesting to see the reactions to this woman and who clearly was behaving in ways that they've not seen before, I guess.
Simon Minty 11:37
It's been a couple of years, since I've been in a&e. And I remember when I thought I was having a heart attack. And it turned out that I got severe indigestion slightly embarrassing, but nevertheless. And the bit I loved about waiting in the A&E was this leveller of you look around the room, and it is it takes all sorts to be plonked in there, including me. And as I like that there's a flipside. Anyone who watches TV, video or cartoons, does their Duolingo and doesn't use headphones is not fair, either. That's not on their I don't mind, the clapping and the happiness, it's all the other bits. But I there's a load in there isn't there
Phil Friend 12:19
The thing that you feel overall, or at least I felt overall, just to kind of drop it in was completely powerless, disempowered, you go in as an authority, you know, you've got your personal, whatever you got, yeah. And within minutes, you're part of a machine, and you don't feel that you have any control over it, and you don't know what's going on. And nobody, everybody's very caring, but they're not telling you things because they can't because they don't know. You know, it's it's that it's and it's very fast. I mean, by five o'clock, Sue would have gone into I don't know, it's either done what whatever they told her.
Simon Minty 13:02
I remember having blood taken at the Whittington in North London. And the bit I loved about it, it was this massive room with maybe 30 different booths just with a little curtain. And you rocked up and you're overwhelmed because there's you know, 80 people sitting there. Oh, my God, what's going on? And basically, you got a little number like the Argos queue and that's all you need. Because then you see the numbers changing. And you know, where I am in the play in the queue and whether it's going to be ages or not. You see it moving. And that was enough information. I also remember going into the booth, and I was on my scooter and I said to him, I'm gonna get off the scooter and even though you're fine, and as he was prepping, I said, just to let you know, it's quite hard to get blood from me my arms are quite difficult everyone has an issue. And then he literally has it all done. And I think I mean, it was I was so depersonalized I mean they they're doing them whack get you through it. In out in out in out but there was something about I knew what was going on the eight hours waiting. I don't know what the average is these days. And this A&E thing is a real issue. My mum has very severe back pain. And the GP surgery said we can't see you for two weeks. Yeah. And the pain management clinic said we've got a date with you in two months. That's all we can do. So I was looking at my mum and saying we've got two choices. We phone up the GP surgery say this isn't acceptable. Or we go to a&e, because you can't be like this for two or four weeks however long it might be. And in the end my sister had to call up the GP surgery and say my mom has bent over double can't move. We need some help here. It's a ah it's really frustrating. When you say A and E I am still in the 70s of little boy or little girl with a saucepan her head.
Phil Friend 15:02
Or a railing heads stuck in a railing or something,
Simon Minty 15:06
or a broken leg and they're in a plaster and all that sort of stuff. It, as you say, is it that everyone should be in a&e? Or is it they're only in a&e because there's nowhere else to go?
Phil Friend 15:19
Well, clearly, in a modern hospital, as I discovered, whilst he was in, I went to go around various bloody corridors, there are sort of urgent daycare facility, there's a, an urgent treatment centre, there's, you know, they'd like four different things. A&E in a sense, it's just this great big thing where everybody goes in, and then you're triage and I guess you get sent off for urgent treatment, or you go to the eye clinic or you go somewhere else. So it's a kind of melting pot there. But I think, just to average, they had this screen on the wall, which gave average time so it had average wait time, people waiting for triage, people waiting for treatment, so on. And eight hours was regularly the average, but it kept jumping around. So even that wasn't the date on the calendar was May the something you know, and in fact, we're now in June, I mean, everywhere you kind of looked, was this sense of decay?
Simon Minty 16:21
Well, and also I can't do anywhere else. I know when I used to have the hip surgery appointments with UCLH or other hospitals, and you turn up as nine and it's a average wait time, two hours? Yeah. How can you ever two hour delay, and you've been only been going for half an hour? It doesn't make sense to me if it was five o'clock, and what a day it's been, we're running two hours behind. I I have a couple of thoughts. And um, you know, there's a more specific point, we have a colleague, who, you know, as well, I'm not gonna name him because it's his business. But he's got a bit of a heart condition. He's had it in the past. He has another form of impairment as well, but that's incidental in this sense. He has heard he's on his 10th week in hospital. And let me qualify in those 10 weeks, they've not done anything. Here they will, he went in and they said, Okay, this is serious, we need to look at this might need some surgery, but they won't let him go home because if he goes home, he falls out the system. And then he has to wait six months or whatever to get back in. I'm really sorry, but I cannot believe anyone. Okay, I'll admit, I don't know the whole system. But the idea this is effective, and efficient use of anyone's time to keep someone in a bed, doing nothing for 10 weeks, and people looking after them. Don't get that. And that isn't even to mention his mental health and well being to be sat on a bed and not been able to do anything and you're constantly waiting to find out. When am I going to go to the right hospital to get the work. Then when I get there? I've got Oh, he's been in the right hospital now for another three weeks. And he's waiting for his day to have the surgery Is it? Is it a staffing issue? Is it a capable? I don't think it's the staff on the ground? I really don't I just feel it's management? And is is the NHS beyond manageable now. I mean, it doesn't need to be separate departments or by the way, and I know I'm being naughty here. If you said all right, Simon, you're full of it go in and sort it out. I couldn't, I couldn't. It would.
Phil Friend 18:39
I spent all day thinking about how I would reorganize this bloody place but I'm not an expert I think sometimes what's missing or feels to be missing is where people have sat down, I What I'd like to do is I'd like to get some very senior managers and some politicians. And I'd like them to follow the journey of five or six patients at picked at random who just turn up at nine in the morning at a&e. And I'd like them to follow them until there is a conclusion to their treatment, whatever that is discharged or on ward or whatever. Because one of the things that struck me about Sue stay in the hospital, which was fine, brilliant nursing, really concerned people very lovely note no complaints at all about the treatment, Sue received from any body actually they were all doing their very best. But the system somehow was against them. So really the thing that's going on emotionally for you, the patient and for the guy we're talking about is people are coming and going all the time on the wards. So Sue when I left so there were two women with her when I came the next day there were four, you know, and then one of them left and so you've and then Sue left And the three that were left behind that she'd formed a very brief sort of little relationship with. So you're you're going through making relationships losing them, make, you know, very quickly all that this guy sitting there for 10 weeks, the numbers of changes he must have seen going on. And the staff haven't time for his mental health, I suspect, you know, because what Sue was already seen what she'd seen a physio, did she need any of that she'd seen someone else about something else. But I don't think a counselor or a psychiatrist would have come near. Do you know what I mean? It's, I mean, they asked the questions about how are you feeling emotionally, they do ask you, but surprisingly, the food was brilliant. Sue thought the food was excellent, which I've always thought was a common complaint about the NHS, the food was rubbish. But I don't know Simon there's something. There's a machine, that somehow you only see the heart of the machine, when you're actually in the bed. Of course, up to the point between that and that it's a machine that's just you're just being dealt with as, like you said a number you're given a number and that's what you become kind of
Simon Minty 21:11
and for a blood test. It's alright. Yeah. Cuz you're in out, get it done. And I really don't need a an hour chat through this. i It's simple. But there were other times that there does need that. I don't know. It worries me and saddens me. And then there's I know, let's get into proper politics. Now. You got Forage saying we need a French system where there's more privatization, I don't really understand what that is. It's very unusual for me to say this, but I know that the Tories when you look at the money that they put into the NHS, etc, greater than, you know, inflation, they are investing in it. And yet it still isn't anything that we accept. I have these little moments. We did a lot of politics yesterday, and my sister, by the way, and I looked across and you must know this better than me where you go. I hear this every frickin election, the same promises, and nothing really. And the NHS is one of those classics. And we probably debated it before. What is it? I think it's becoming less of a taboo to say, it's not working. What is still a taboo, if it's asked to say we've got to fundamentally change it. And then it all goes weird. But and when I say fundamentally change it, that doesn't mean privatization. That means somehow restructuring reorganizing. Because It's bonkers, that we're paying, everyone is paying a lot of money, a percentage of our GDP all of these things, and and it ain't great. That's the problem.
Phil Friend 22:47
And we're paying a lot less than most European countries do. Okay, and that's, I mean, we are investing, as you say, a lot of money into the NHS, but actually compared to our European neighbors, they're putting far more in there is a different balance of private and all that stuff as well, to be fair, but But it's, it's a system that's you and I went to see Nye, didn't we, which is about the foundation of the NHS and all of that, and it was what it was and now it's I mean, the demands on it from all over the place. But it does seem to me that one of the big issues that needs to be addressed. And I think there are more and more conversations about this is stopping the bath filling up turning off the taps so that now you have really first class community based medicine, really good preventative medicine, really good sort of emergency appointments that work to turn off the soaring numbers of people that are now going into A&E because they can't get seen anywhere else. You as you said yourself, that seems to me to be a place to start that you look at and all the restructures and all the things we've lived through over the last 30 years. Really I don't seem to I think what they do is add layers of bureaucracies and whatever else but they don't seem to make improvements on the ground. The ambulance services falling apart GP's can't you can't get them and if you can get them you can't you wait a month from appointment all of that stuff is. So A&E fills up. You know,
Simon Minty 24:23
There are issues in this, this the system sucks the idea that Sue has to stay overnight. The idea that our other friend has to spend 10 weeks laying in bed because it doesn't make someone's got to look at and go. That doesn't make sense. Why can't they go home, and then they call back in it. It's a bit like our old queueing system at the London Eye. If you had some sort of disability use walking sticks. You could go and sit down but you wouldn't lose your place in the queue. Yeah, what they're saying the NHS is unless you stand in that queue. You're not getting anything, it doesn't make any logical sense. I do agree maybe more money. And I do agree with if we're saying we need to match other countries because they get all of those good, but I don't think it is just money. I think it's it's how it's run.
Phil Friend 25:13
I think there's truth in that. I think the other thing that's changed that we haven't talked about, and actually you don't really see so much in the a&e context is social care. The huge demands on social care and, that are not being met. So therefore, people end up in hospital that shouldn't be there or stay longer than they need to be because there's no beds for them in residential care settings, or community based settings. So it's, it's a kind of very complex. All I saw, as we kind of draw this to a close all I saw was a snapshot of a day in A&E. And what we've been talking about is all the other things that are going on in the health care area, that seem to not be working well. And that makes it worse, you know
Simon Minty 26:09
I believe there are regional differences, which is unfortunate, but you shouldn't want that I think you have raised the other thing that everyone raises, which is the aging population, who was I speak to recently, we're talking about pensions, and you, you retire at 65. I know 30/40 years ago, and people might be dead by 75. So they don't take their pension for 40 years, and they don't have all these ailments that the NHS then does, and particularly if the work that they did was, you know, more physical or whatever it might be. And that's not the case anymore. So we are obviously getting older living longer.
Phil Friend 26:44
I don't know I just think that there's it reminded me that day that I spent with Sue in A&E, just how serious things are and how difficult things are. And actually what amazing people we have who who do and who we pay a pittance to to kind of look after us and anyway, I just wanted to share that with our listeners,
Simon Minty 27:07
Some we pay a pittance too many we pay a pittance to there's others in it. If you remember when we watch the play Nye about Ney Bevin the doctors made sure they would be the best paid in the country. I mean, they're not all saints. I mean, they made sure they get
Phil Friend 27:22
Now Simon and please, goodness, these are lovely people,
Simon Minty 27:26
this is an issue that I have, which is I adore the NHS and I want it to stay I've got my Snoopy t shirt with cuddling the NHS, my favorite T Shirt it's like, it shouldn't be above criticism. It shouldn't be above saying some of the uncomfortable truths. And by the way, of course doctors are fantastic. I don't want to make out the now 150 grand a year and they're doing moonlighting with their private work. They're doing all right Jack, brilliant pensions. But there's a whole bunch of others who are in lower grades that are not getting that sort of money. And absolutely
Phil Friend 28:01
We're we're doing what we said we wouldn't do which is bang on for hours and hours about this subject
Simon Minty 28:06
and it hurts my head It saddens my heart
Phil Friend 28:10
Perhaps you should go to A&E and have your head looked at
Simon Minty 28:12
saddens my heart and hurts my head because I don't know how to make it better.
Phil Friend 28:17
We've made a little contribution Simon today.
Simon Minty 28:21
Oh, I think it'll all change.
Announcer 28:25
Thank you for listening to The Way We Roll with Simon Minty and Phil Friend. If you enjoy the show, don't forget to subscribe, rate and share.
Simon Minty 28:33
Okay, new topic, Mr. Friend. Although it's going to be another frustration with the system. We had the guest a little while back called Abbie Brown. We did
Phil Friend 28:46
Actually quite a while ago now was one of our early early people in person in your flat. You gave us lunch.
Simon Minty 28:54
And at that point, Abby was one of my younger next generation. And you know, I'm always conscious. I want to hear from the next generation. I think the last time I saw her, she said, You know, I'm 30 now not 15. Anyway Abby is a fabulous person and I spotted some stuff on her Instagram and then it finally made it to BBC. This was and basically Abby is a wheelchair user and lives in East London. She's been trapped in her flat for days after one of the lifts broke. And she says it's been made to feel it is my fault. Jumping forward a little bit. It says she's got property management people. I don't know it's a private or social. I'm not quite sure but Crabtree are the property management people. Abby can see a lift through this door which is working, but they said they won't unlock it is a different part of the building and they're saying this is a fire door. So it has to be locked all the time. So she's been there it is must be a week now, that once or twice the lift was resolved, so she would go down and she would go to the shop, she came back, and then it was broken. So he's had to crawl up the stairs. She's absolutely stuffed. And the bit that drives me to distraction is that there is a certain the fire service have looked at it, and they've said, there is no reason why this door couldn't be unlocked. I'm also thinking, Could Abby have a pass for two weeks while they fix the lift proper. And she's the only one who uses it. And it's one of those. And I know what's gonna happen, it's made the BBC now, Crabtree will resolve it. I panic about this. I mean, every apartment block I've lived in, I will can't say that I've guaranteed it. But once I've known there's two lifts, I relax. Because you lose one. You get jumpy, we lost. We lost one where I live. And it was about a week. And so I spoke to the we got on site, people who look after it. And I said, it's been a week now what's happening, we're just waiting for a part. And I said, when's the part kind of because I said I get jumpy. I don't. Because if the other one goes, I'm stuffed. I can get out in an emergency. But I can't live my life. That's the point. And anyway, I haven't quite got. But I just wanted to raise it thinking. It frustrates me that there's clearly jobsworth people who don't really understand don't really engage. He's making all these phone calls she's really anxious. And they're just saying, No, it's nothing we can do about your fault type stuff.
Phil Friend 31:39
So the issue about the door being locked or unlocked fire service, say it can be unlocked, but somebody's in Crabtree whoever is saying that's not possible, which tells me that somebody fairly senior doesn't want to make a decision because they're worried about X, Y, Zed and dropping themselves in, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a rule thing. You can't do it because the rules say x. And famously, when I took over my very first children's home, I asked called a community meeting and one of the little lads George, the community meeting said, Why do we have to be up at seven o'clock, eight o'clock on a Sunday morning. So I looked at my deputy who I'd only just met and said, Why do they have to be up at eight o'clock in the morning. He said, because the staff need to clean the rooms and it's young boys, and we don't have the women going into young boys bedrooms first thing in the morning. There you are George, I said, that's your reason. And George said, the cleaners don't come in on Sundays. Really. Nobody had noticed. The rule was there. Nobody had noticed. So along comes Abby Brown and says, I'm a wheelchair user, I need to use that exit when the lifts are not working. I need obviously something set up so that it can happen. And they look at the rules. And somebody says you can't because we're not allowed to leave doors open but actually the fire service say different but nobody's changing the rule.
Simon Minty 32:58
Exactly. That Will Blow Your Mind minor detail. That is one of those doors, which has got the glass panels so you can see because she can see the lift. Yeah, there's literally on the part of the London fire brigade when contacted by Ms. Brown, about whether a fire door should remain locked. We're told there was no fire safety reason why this should be the case.
Phil Friend 33:19
It should be closed. It doesn't say it should be locked, does it what's the point of a fire door that's locked how do you get out? That sounds a bit weird.
Simon Minty 33:29
Weirdly where I live when I think you've been downstairs this route and you come out the lifts to get to the carpark yeah and the door opens towards you which is infuriating because it means now I had to go all the way past the door, turn around 180 degrees then go back towards it. And when I moved in, I said to them, can you rehang it the other way? Because I can just then fly out and they're like No, and I'm like, You left it for a bit and then I had some work people around doing some my kitchen and we went downstairs and he was coming in and out with me and I said look his bloody door he said it must be a nightmare I'm telling you is and he went was because of the fire escape and I went what? So the lifts would be turned off in a fire evacuation. Yes. At the other end of this corridor, which is what I have to go up to to turn around is a fire escape from the stairwell. So essentially anyone running down would be able to run straight out the door. If they rehang it they would then face the issue that I have. So I have accepted on this occasion
Phil Friend 34:35
Have youy thought of buying a smaller scooter that turns around on itself I can't get hold of a scooter i've done that route with you and I do remember it because we both had to do it. You had to do it then I had to do it because
Simon Minty 34:55
you know what? And this is the point for Abby which is when someone explained why And it's not quite the greater good. It's more. It makes sense. And it is just inconvenient to me. Yeah. All right, there's not likely to be a fire. But I don't want. I mean, now I'm thinking we should have a door that swings both ways.
Phil Friend 35:19
But but then it wouldn't close properly, would it? It would allow. It wouldn't work as a fire door if it swings both ways. Because the jam has to be able to withhold heat and smoke and all that stuff for a certain amount of time, doesn't it? And I'm going back to the days when I used to do consultancy stuff on these you know, peeps personal emergency evacuation plans. Do you remember those? Yeah, of course, the fire doors and fire exits and all that stuff. Abby, it sounds sounds like this is pretty petty actually. Because the fire service have said that door. I do think it's weird that a door is locked that's a fire door. It does sound odd
Simon Minty 35:58
There were little weird bits. I know when I've lived in a block of flats. That was some were sold privately and some were called. What's that word? It was. It wasn't quite social housing. But they were slightly discounted. There was I can't remember the word was the most uncomfortable bit I remember was I had a fob that I could go anywhere in the apartment block. If you were in the other side, your fob would only work for certain areas in the building. So there was a maybe this is the same as Abby, my FOB could get me to both lifts. There was one at my end. And there was another one that the other end. They couldn't get to my lift if they therefore would be limited if they were in one or the other sort of designated flats. So I'm wondering whether Abby's place has been split into two. And they're saying that's the other side. You're not allowed to use their lift, which is bonkers.
Phil Friend 36:53
But we've heard of this thing called reasonable adjustments.
Simon Minty 36:57
I want to say the word humanity.
Phil Friend 36:59
Well, I want to say health and safety. How does she get out? I've trumped yours with health and safety. What you're going to do now?
Simon Minty 37:09
Nothing trumps humanity? Morality ethics, I can't get my head around that.
Phil Friend 37:22
But if there's a rule, for reasons perhaps we don't understand where certain residents can only use certain for it and others can do whatever. That's all very fine. I mean, I'm not saying I like it. But that's the problem is Abby. Yeah. Being a wheelchair user we have to factor in what does she do then? If there's an emergency? And I think in that case, you'd make the adjustment and so you have the fob.
Simon Minty 37:45
And you and that's your and that is the point and I think we have because I think it's called affordable housing. That's what it was. Oh, yes. And my point being if there was some in affordable housing that said the other lift in the private is way much better for me and my impairment. And for Abby, it's not this way much better. It's the only other option. It is bizarre that they will not make the adjustment say Abby, here's a foul but here's the key use it for the next x until we fix the other one. It's it's beyond frustration, and I can imagine her making phone calls and emails. And that is the corny old bit if you've got an impairment, you face certain issues that you have to manage yourself because it comes with the territory. And then when the world conspires to make it even worse, it is so exhausting. Yeah, beyond exhausting
Phil Friend 38:39
and I don't know how many things Abby's had to miss because of it, I mean, employment wise or socially or yeah, it's just a note and we talked earlier about mental health you know, that's kicking in as well. Yeah, I mean, you know, no wonder people are depressed go through this bloody crap all the time.
Simon Minty 38:59
And one of my go to is well I'm feeling a bit down or a bit blue or a bit whatever he's just to go out for an hour and go around the block even go around Sainsburys because that cheers me up so the idea that I don't have that as an option?
Phil Friend 39:12
Okay, Abby, we have drumming up the listenership to march on Crabtree
Simon Minty 39:21
Yeah, exactly. I hope by this this point Abby has got a freedom back but perhaps we should update our listeners by finding out from Abby before we do our next pod to find out whether this has been resolved.
Phil Friend 39:36
On you Mr. Minty you brought it up mate. Not me.
Simon Minty 39:45
Okay, I will sort out Abby you sort out the NHS.
Phil Friend 39:48
No problem done by lunch because you're definitely gung ho you're about to go on holiday. I can tell.
Simon Minty 39:57
I did a couple of tweets recently one was about the DWP is disability confidence being not making any impact. And someone says, someone said to me, blimey, you're getting a bit radical. And I'm like more. First of all, am I clearly not that radical? And I accept there certain times I'm really I don't get involved in some of the deep disability politics, or certainly not on social media. I don't. But the other bit was, well, that I just thought he's very neutral. I was reporting somebody else saying, it's not working. I didn't think that was a statement. I suppose that classic is a retweet an endorsement or just sharing extra information between you and me, we know its pants.
Phil Friend 40:43
It is I've kind of given up on tweets, as you know, because I think x is just a joke. But I think disability confident came out how many years ago? Well, the most recent by the Tory government, which I always remember, our friend Susan Scott Parker get very angry about. We were talking about disability confidence years ago said Susan. We all said it was going to be rubbish. And it is. It's made no difference.
Simon Minty 41:09
Susan coined the term and there is a bit about having both individual and employer being confident around the topic. Nothing wrong with that she gave them permission to use it, which was kind but maybe daft. But the problem being the two and three levels there are there's two levels that basically say, we don't hate disabled people. Okay, you're on level one. Level two is yeah, some of them all right. All right, level two. Level three is like we love them. No level threes, you really do have to do a lot of work. Oh, and that's the only one that for me has some validity. But the point being and by the way, I'll throw myself in the pot here. All of the work that lots of us has done has not necessarily improved the employment, raw numbers of disabled people in jobs.
Phil Friend 41:59
Well, I've noticed it's gone up a lot since I stopped doing consultancy work. I do beg to differ. Other thing, of course, is that it was self policed. So nobody quite knew whether you actually did say, Oh, they're all right, really? Because nobody went in and assessed you.
Simon Minty 42:18
Just to check you said it's gone up since you stopped. So since you've stopped doing training, consultancy, more disabled people have been employed.
Phil Friend 42:26
No, no, no. The answer is no, I didn't say that. You're misquoting me.
Simon Minty 42:31
You said I've seen the numbers have gone up since I've stepped back.
Phil Friend 42:34
The unemployment rate has gone up of disabled people
Simon Minty 42:40
You said it the other way around
Phil Friend 42:41
Absolute rubbish. I need to come back. I'm going to I'm going to come out of retirement.
Simon Minty 42:47
I think these honours that you got may have to be handed back Sir
Phil Friend 42:54
And on that bombshell.
Simon Minty 42:58
Yeah, well, I hope Sue and her hospital stuff gets easier and we hope very much that Abby gets her freedom very very quickly.
Phil Friend 43:10
Well, and our friend is currently languishing in bloody hospital with no treatment. It sounds like there's a bit of movement going on there. So who knows maybe he will be alright, but all is not well with the dear old NHS or the Building Regulations by the sound of it. Abby's case.
Simon Minty 43:25
Thank you listener for listening. Apologies again, that we didn't do a guest as planned, but I hope there was some nuggets in there that you enjoyed.
Phil Friend 43:33
Yep, me too. And Simon have a nice break going away for a few days. That'll be lovely. And I if you want to contact us about the controversial stuff that we've been discussing today, you could do that at mintyand friend@gmail.com. Or
Simon Minty 43:49
Thank you social media. We're on x. We're on LinkedIn, we're on we've got YouTube channel, Facebook, and even Instagram. So wherever you want to go look up the way we roll and you'll be able to follow us send messages.
Phil Friend 44:03
So thanks a lot, Simon. See you soon. Enjoy your break.
Simon Minty 44:06
Take care. Cheers, Phil.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai