
The Way We Roll
A seriously funny take on life from the disability driven duo... Simon Minty and Phil Friend.
The Way We Roll
“Surely, it’s all ok now for disabled people?” Kiki McDonald and Euan’s Guide Access Survey 2025
As a disabled person, when you first start talking to a non-disabled person about the barriers to your participation, you can be met with the response, ‘I thought that’s all sorted now. ’ If you suggest they take a look at 20 shops locally, chances are they’ll find many are not physically accessible. And that’s just a high street.
Euan’s Guide carry out a survey asking disabled people in the UK about their experiences. Their latest research shows there’s a long way to go, as many of us know. For example:
- 70% said the lack of disabled access has directly affected plans or aspirations
- 78% are not confident when visiting new places in terms of accessibility
- Only 7% felt positive about the new government making things better.
Our guest this month, Kiki McDonald, co-founder of Euan’s Guide with her late brother Euan, says, “disabled people are still having to fight for disabled access information and access to everyday places, be it a train or a restaurant. Accessibility should be a right, not a privilege.”
With Kiki, we talk about the survey results in detail. We also reflect with Kiki about the impact and joy of Euan McDonald.
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Announcer 0:11
This is The Way We Roll, presented by Simon Minty and Phil Friend. You can email us at mintyand friend@gmail.com or just search for minty and friend on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.
Simon Minty 0:31
Hello and welcome toThe Way We Rolll with me. Simon Minty and me, Phil Friend. Our guest today is Kiki McDonald, a co founder of Euan's Guide, which is an award winning disabled access charity, best known for the disabled access review website called euansguide.com they also make 10s of 1000s of accessible toilets safer, and they run the UK's largest access survey, and they do a lot more.
Phil Friend 0:59
Kiki is the sister of the late Euan McDonald. MBE Euan and Kiki set up Euan's Guide to help make disabled access information easy. After Euan was diagnosed with motor neurone disease and became a power chair user,
Speaker 1 1:14
I met Euan and Kiki in Edinburgh at the Fringe Festival in 2015 sadly, Euan died in August of last year, and a little bit later on in the show, we will talk with Kiki about Euan and his impact.
Phil Friend 1:29
But first we want to explore the results of the 2024 UN's guide access survey. Kiki, welcome and in an in a nutshell, what is the UN's guide access survey?
Kiki Mcdonald 1:41
Hi, Phil, so each year we poll disabled people in the UK about what they think of the accessibility is like in the UK, and it is now the longest running and largest survey of its kind. Last the last survey had over six and a half 1000 people taking part, brilliant in that survey, and it's been going now for over a decade. So a really large piece of research that's really helps inform our work, but also has some really interesting, really interesting takeaways to come out. To come out of it. The most significant one, I think, that we felt to highlight this time around, was that 70% of respondents have said that lack of disabled access has directly affected their goals, plans or aspirations, and 78% are not confident about visiting new places when thinking about accessibility. So what we feel is that while there has, in the long run, been a lot of progress on accessibility, there still is a huge amount of work to do. And it's quite shocking, really. A lot of the statistics that have come out of this survey. I think there has been a lot of good work that has been done, but I think there is a perception that a lot of it has been done, and actually data is showing that there's still a huge amount to do, and that disabled people are being excluded from, in many cases, everyday life.
Phil Friend 3:23
Yeah,
Simon Minty 3:24
yeah. And one of our questions you've raised that 70% disabled people the lack of access to affecting their goals and aspirations and plans. Can you give us any examples of that that perhaps surprised you? Is there any sort of specifics behind that?
Kiki Mcdonald 3:42
Yeah, so we ask people about what specific sectors are better than others, and one of the really surprising ones we thought was that 74% of people are saying that shopping and everyday essentials is actually really hard, and they're being excluded from that as a sector. And I think there is a lot of what I might call aspirational content out there in accessibility, so lots of fantastic information and stories about perhaps bloggers going to on a cruise or to roam or lots of wonderful things, but actually, it's still very hard to access many parts of your own community and everyday activities, and that's certainly what you and and I find that even going for a coffee with A friend can be a bit of a research project, and really shouldn't be. And I think there's a really important pie ce of work to be doing around access information and accessibility of the everyday spaces and people local communities.
Phil Friend 4:57
I'm a wheelchair user myself, have been. For many years, Simon scoots around on his scooter. I kind of, I'm getting the idea that actually supermarkets, you know, that kind of thing, but you're talking more local shops, the sort of corner suite, yeah, absolutely in the coffee shop and so on. So that presents real challenges, doesn't it? For Euan's Guide how do you drill down into that that level of detail, because the supermarkets will fill in your forms, or people will but the chap running the local news agents,
Kiki Mcdonald 5:30
yes, well, I suppose so, what we would say is that encourage people to write reviews of their local community right at a local coffee shop or the local post office or the local news agent, it doesn't matter, and getting those reviews of those local places is so powerful. We know that people are going to places on the back of just one uns guide review, and it's about getting people to write up places that might feel very mundane, but are really important for local disabled people and disabled visitors to know about that there is a little gem of an accessible, accessible place locally, in your local area that might not seem super jazzy, but is is really powerful, actually, for people to Know about that and know about the everyday. And certainly, when Euan and I were setting up Euan's guide, it wasn't actually necessarily the super exciting places that we were trying to find out about. We were trying to work out which cinema we could get into, where we weren't sitting at the front row. And, you know, and got had good customer service, or these sorts of simple things that might not be quite at the exciting end of the spectrum. I think there is a point you raise about how you make our high streets and local streets more accessible, and that is a big challenge, and that may need greater levels of investment. We've done work before with the access survey on the sector piece that has shown that there are certain sectors that are more accessible than others, and quite a bit of that does come down to funding. So you know, your museums and galleries, etc, that have public funding and have a great mindset on accessibility and engaging on that have got some fantastic, you know, places with fantastic access, but pubs and a lot of local, smaller businesses find that harder because they don't have the funding and maybe don't have the training and knowledge. There's still that piece to fill in too. So there's quite a lot of different things that need to fall into place to help things move forward. And
Simon Minty 7:49
I'm picking up on something specific, because I we know that the smaller, independent outfits can struggle. We know that, however, you said something when it was published about it's the 30th anniversary of what was then the DDA, which, so that was 1995 and you're saying disabled people still have to fight for access information, access to everyday places, whether it's train, restaurant, and access should be a right, not a privilege. I know what you're saying. Can you elaborate a little bit more.
Kiki Mcdonald 8:22
I think what it is is that there just is so still, so much work to be done in terms of, one, raising awareness. Two, getting people engaging in the conversation around accessibility and how important it is. There's possibly a funding piece that needs to come into play. And then where we come in is on the information piece, and trying to encourage people to, if you are a venue or an organization, share your access information. And if you are a disabled person, please share even one or two places that you go, because it makes such a huge difference to people to have that first hand access information where, which is from another disabled person, which is from what we know is the trusted source for other disabled people to rely on, and who they want to hear from us as the real experts, is the first hand. I've been there. I've done that. It's not a tick box exercise, it's how
Phil Friend 9:20
I suppose the big challenge, and I find this a challenge for myself. I go to places with my wife and my kids and whatever, and we do stuff, but I don't remember to tell you. Do you know what I mean now? How do you know we've got, I hope we've got millions of people listening to our podcast. What I'm asking them to do is to do what you're asking them to do, which is to fill in the form, or do the thing. So it pops up at your website, and off we go. How do you make me as I'm sipping my pina colada, remember to fill in the blooming form? Or is there an. App, perhaps, you know, tell me a little bit about the process, because I think that would be really useful.
Kiki Mcdonald 10:04
So we work really hard to make the process as quick and simple as we can, and we're always attributing that to make it faster. So it should take very, you know, two minutes less to to fill in a review, and it can be as little as a photo, two photos and a few lines, if you if you want that. And that's still really powerful for people to have a picture of the accessible Lou, for example, or an entrance and a comment about accessibility. And you can choose to say that you are a wheelchair user yourself. That gives really good context for people to know, okay, that's someone who's in similar situation to me. He's been there and had a good experience for you know that that gives me confidence. And we are relaunching our website this summer, and have put a huge amount of effort into the design to make sure that it is as easy as possible for people to share their opinions on access, and also to make it as accessible and inclusive as possible too. We're always had accessibility at the front and center of what we do, and see it about the people side, rather than standards. So what works for the people that use our site, which is always a bit of a balancing act, because there's lots of different perspectives to take into account, but we've worked really, really hard on the design of the site to make sure it's including as many people as possible and it's as easy to use as possible.
Phil Friend 11:39
Every day, I get a picture from Simon Minty, oh, dear, something like that, where he's in the design museum, or he's at some swanky do, or he's having a coffee with a mate, or it's a picture of his spaghetti bolognese. Do you know what I mean? Simon's really active. He's always showing people where he's been, what he's doing. Yeah. Is there an app that Simon could use where those same things cou ld Yeah,
Kiki Mcdonald 12:03
so we've got an app coming out, a new app.
Phil Friend 12:06
We want to see Simon's face on Euan's guide every week.
Kiki Mcdonald 12:12
So it's very easy to use a mobile site on your phone. And we've got a new app coming out as well. First, you're getting the new website first, and then the new app, okay, but people can also, if it's not, if it doesn't work, for people to use a website. We have people who email us reviews. We've got people who write us, send us paper reviews, if that's the way that they would like them. We've got easy read forums. We can do video reviews. We've got BSL reviews. We've got in whatever format you want to send us that information. Please send it in and we, we will get it up on the website. You
Simon Minty 12:49
You alluded to something as in the sort of balancing of the different demands and different needs. And I'm interested in we've, so far, we've talked about physical access, and we know the breadth of disability now, when you think of the non visible conditions, the neurodiverse conditions, the long term health conditions, is that is that part of what you do now, is there stuff around what works for people?
Kiki Mcdonald 13:13
It's really whatever people want to include in the review and want to talk about, and we've got ways of filtering as well on the site of what's most relevant for people to see. So if people are visually impaired and want to look for impaired from reviews from other visually impaired people, we have that we've got lots of different filtering on the site so that people can find the reviews are most relevant to them. And there may be people who have different conditions, they are looking out for different access requirements that they're looking out for, and you can filter on that as well. You can also look on the site as well in terms of looking for different access accessibility features, such as if you're looking for wet rooms, or if you're looking for hoists, or so many different things. So I encourage people, really, to have a look on the site and and see what works for them. And hopefully there is content that is useful and relevant. And please do add their views to the to the mix. We talk about more voices, greater choices. And so the more voices we have on the site, the more you know, greater choices we can we can give to our community of of of users. And it's always been about giving disabled people a stronger voice. And we've always felt there isn't a strong disabled people do not have a strong voice. And it's a way of getting that, that those perspectives across and out in the public domain, and also on that the all of the reviews go back to the venue. So part of the process of, I think, making. The UK, the world more accessible is, is getting more people engaging in the, what we might call the accessibility conversation. So all the reviews go back to the venues who know therefore that they've had a disabled customer visiting them, and they think, oh, either may, it may be a good thing, and maybe we should be talking about this a bit more, or there's something I could change. And we've had loads of venues change their accessibility on the back of the reviews. We've even had reviewers ending up meeting some of the venues to have a chat about why they found you know, if you'd move that thing around, or if you put this thing in, that'd be really helpful. And what one of the really surprising things that we've found since starting unguide is the fear around accessibility and nervousness from venues and organizations. And we have met lots of venues that have fantastic access, actually, who don't want to talk about it because they're really frightened that it's not perfect, and we keep on saying, Please tell people what you have, and also tell people what you don't have, because then people can make an informed decision if they want to come and visit you, and it's the only way that things improve if they feel empowered to then change something To make it just that bit better, and maybe making it 10% better is obviously a lot better than them hiding away and not telling anyone actually they have got this. You know, some
Phil Friend 16:31
Is there a crossover Kiki? Obviously, I'm the wheelchair user. I go into the cafe, I do the film, I send you it, and stuff like that. But I've got four kids that were grown up, and they go to restaurants and cafes, and they're also very angry about access, even when I'm not with them. Is there a crossover? I've got a very quick example. I'm looking for a cruise. These the cruise lines send me this ship and give me all the and it's a wet room and all that lovely stuff. But there's no pictures. There's no nothing. I go on YouTube and a couple non disabled couple are in the accessible cabin. They filmed it all and said, Oh, look at these lovely features they've got. And I'm using that video to help me see it wasn't done by a disabled person. As far as I know, it was done by just an ordinary couple. Is there a kind of crossover then, whereby supporters of accessibility who are not disabled themselves can contribute to this guide or the research or or is, are we looking purely at disabled p
Kiki Mcdonald 17:34
What we ask people is, it's, it's for disabled people and the people they spend time with to say, okay, so if you are, you know, I've, I've written reviews when I've been out and about with you and but I've only written reviews of places when I've been out with him to get his view on on the whole experience. I think if someone's sending in a video or a picture of something fantastic, but the experiential side of it, of what were the staff like? Is it key from the disabled person themselves? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where the power of these reviews come from, too, because that's why people trust the content, because it's come from someone who's got some similar perspective requirements to to themselves, but I think as an organization, we're just really keen that people there is just more. There just isn't enough access information, and the more people that share it is what what we need, and whatever style or it is, it doesn't sort of matter, but as long as there's more of it. And you know, one of the stats is quite, quite amazing, that in the access survey is 81% of people saying that they've had to change their plans because of poor access. 77% of the respondents in the survey have avoided going somewhere because they couldn't find the access information about an accessible toilet, which is really quite shocking. Yeah, it tells you two things. One, there aren't enough accessible toilets out there, obviously, and then, but two people aren't sharing the fact that they have one, and it is quite amazing to think about that, given how much progress we have have had. But I think many people would be be amazed at how, how still, how challenging it is. And that's not to say there isn't really great content either. There's fantastic places out there. It's just getting the information out there. And
Simon Minty 19:46
I went to an event not that long ago, and I was invited by someone called Susan Scott Parker, who's been a leading light on disability for years, and we will walk. I was on my school just she was walking, and I suddenly went. I. I it is accessible this place, isn't it? And she went, Well, I thought you knew that. And I went, Well, I thought you would have checked that. And she went, Well, I thought your PA might have checked that. I said, but you've got a PA, I mean, where we had this little back and forth, who should have been responsible for checking it out. It the when we went there, I mentioned it because it was like, I think it was called the Royal College of Music, which was a lovely place to visit. But they had, you know, those stairs where you think, oh, no, it's proper stairs, but then you press a button, and then they all level out and turn into a platform lift, and even in, yeah, the whole place was accessible, and they'd obviously spent time and money doing it. It's a long way of me introducing it. It was you mentioned a bit about the lose and and I like what you've talked about, that the basics you're looking at, some of the essentials that we need, and these are not being met. I think there's a stat. 73% of respondents have come across an accessible loo that they've not been able to use. Do you know why do you go further? Do we know why that was? Are they just out of order? They're not working badly maintained?
Kiki Mcdonald 21:00
Yes. So there's that is broken down. So in well, people have been asked what condition they find the loose and actually frequently finding that they're dirty, that they're filled with staff. They're not operating, really, as an accessible loo. They're they were built as an accessible loo, but they haven't been maintained as one which feels like something that isn't. Shouldn't be a big structural barrier, therefore, because it's relatively easy to fix. But then that's an awareness thing, isn't it? With the venues and training, which is an easier fix than trying to put an accessible loo into you know that difficult structure. But you know, having said that, one of the best sectors that came out in a previous access survey is historic buildings and and actually, there's been some really great work done in that sector because they have access to funding. So we wrote a lovely castles and battlefields guide a few years ago, and we'd love to see that again. And you know, there's some fantastic places out there that have been invested in, and it kind of answers the argument about, oh, I've got an old building, and it's awfully difficult, and you're like, well, there's plenty places here that that have been adapted and are still keep the spirits of the building and the culture and the history, you know, but everybody you can now come and enjoy it. And is that not the purpose of it? So I think it's lovely as well to we know people use uns guide sometimes, just to read the reviews, almost a bit like a sort of coffee book of, kind of like, oh, I never thought that place might be accessible. That's quite interesting, which is nice too, for sort of changing perceptions, and then also encouraging venues to see examples of good practice. That actually, while these, these guys have done this, and that's what it looks like and and that's possible. So there's, there's a number of things that come into play.
Simon Minty 23:08
We're going to come on to Euan in a moment. You've made me think of one question, because in our time, Phil and I, and I'm sure you, Kiki, you've seen lots of review websites, access websites, but they come and go. So how come Euan's Guide has stuck? What do you think the secret of your success is?
Kiki Mcdonald 23:29
I think it is the team that we have and the individuals that have been involved from the start and their tenacity and determination to keep to keep going with it, I think, or the passion to deliver it, I think, and believing in the in the vision behind it, I think the fact that we are a charity is different, too, because we're not trying to make money out of this. We're just trying to share what we felt, what we needed ourselves, and we want to happen because we know how powerful it is and how useful it would have been for us in those early days to have a directory like that, and there's many people in the team who feel exactly the same that and have benefited from other people's reviews. I mean, we love reading other people's reviews, and have gone to all sorts of places, and you and I got up to all sorts of capers, either trying out new places or, you know, really benefiting from what other people have done. And I think also as a team, we have almost to a fault. I think sometimes we try to build something that is really high quality, that has thought of and as many perspectives as possible. So it's by no means perfect, and we've got loads to do, but we've, um. Yeah, I think, I think we've, we've tried really hard to make it as useful as we can, and to listen to the community and what people want out of the website and and the app. And hence why we are, are making the changes this summer that we are.
Simon Minty 25:21
I think it's a perfect time to move on to Euan. And we spoke about his passing last autumn in the podcast we did then, if someone who's listening hasn't come across, do a little search on the internet, and you'll read about the remarkable man that he was, his campaigning achievements, his career before he became a wheelchair user. I'm just wondering if you as his sister could tell us one or two things that we wouldn't be able to see out. I didn't mean it in any I guess, what are some of the, some of the things we don't read about that that was
Phil Friend 25:59
He was a Hibs supporter, for a start, I did know that, yeah,
Kiki Mcdonald 26:03
He was a big Hibernian fan, which I think in really gives you, from an early stage, a real sense of grit you have to be able to endure. I mean, they're doing better now, but you learn about sort of, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you've toughed it out, also with an east wind, you know, blowing in your face while they lose. But, you know, and then their way, and that is definitely a low point. Was him taking me to see them lose against Hearts at Hampden, I think. And I'm not interested in football either, so, but yeah,
Phil Friend 26:39
So he knew ho punish you!
Kiki Mcdonald 26:42
he's a big sports fan. And, yeah, he, he just, I would say, just at a huge lust for life and fun and mischief. He was a huge wind up merchant. I mean, he, yeah, loved, loved jokes and capers and being quite badly behaved sometimes. And I think that was part of his his charm, and how he convinced people to get involved and do things.
Phil Friend 27:09
He must hve been very persuasive Was he very persuasive
Kiki Mcdonald 27:17
I think because he, he, I think it's just very gentle and kind person. And he, yeah, it was good fun. So I think that's maybe infectious and and I certainly find I thought, gosh, if he's he's up for going. I mean, to some things, I better go. But he we, well, we won tickets to tea in the park of old, a sort of raffle thing or something. And it was when it was in the old site in Kinross, rather than the newer one. And, and I thought, you gotta be joking, we're not going there. It was going to be awful. And, and he was like, now we're going, yeah, he's just sort of up for it. And then I thought it'd be awful. And you know what it was, it was great. And it was quite a long time. It was just when he became, become a wheelchair user. So quite a long time ago now, police 2013 and I think that was part of why we we'd had some really cracking experiences, and we wanted to share it and and we had, we had a huge amount of fun together. So yeah, big sports fan loved hips football, going to see all the rugby games, taking his sons to the rugby and the football and live music. Massive lives music fans. So ACDC is actually playing here in Edinburgh on the anniversary of you and dying, dying last year. And I think it's very It felt very appropriate in to me that that they don't, they've not been to Edinburgh for a long, long time. So he would, he would go to any live music that he could. So that was a big, a big part of his life, too, and really just he was dedicated to his family and to his sons. And I think that really kept him, kept him having a sort of lust for doing all sorts was, was, was hanging out with with those two
Simon Minty 29:24
I think when I met him, he was without speech. Did he use a communication device?
Kiki Mcdonald 29:31
Yeah, had a tracheostomy, probably about 12 years ago. Yeah, yeah, which he wasn't. I know you've talked a lot about this sort of parts adjacent to this area before, but he wasn't going to have one, was his decision, but that would have been the end of the road for him. So at last minute, he decided to have one, and everyone said, I'll only give him two or three months. And. It's not much point. And 12 years on, there he was so he had an AAC device, so he was non verbal for 12 years, which is just amazing I find in itself. And he had a voice that was created for him, that was a blend of his voice and my brother's voice, and that became a project called what is now called Speak unique, was the voice Banking project, and is still going strong, making voices personalized voices for people so they can sound like themselves, which is a big part of people's identity, rather than an off the shelf sort of whatever accent. So that was another big area that he got involved in. And the main thing when he was diagnosed was the pair of us went off to this on a mad trip. Again, always going off on my trips to America. We went to Baltimore to go to Johns Hopkins University, because they had some very exciting work going on in MND. And we saw a clinic there where people were diagnosed in a really lovely environment, and where there was research going on, and you could see of various different sort of ancillary people as well physios and nutritionists and all sorts of people all on one site. And it was just this fantastic sort of feeling of that there was research happening, and a sort of hopefulness and and then he came back to the to back home, and he discovered that there was 21 people in Scotland working on MND but not talking to each other. And that was the start of the year McDonald Center for Remote disease disease research, which he started with my father and then at University of Edinburgh, and was named after him. And there's now over 200 people working on MND research there, and they're doing, I think they're on their third clinical drug trial at the moment, which is a UK wide several universities feeding into that. So, which is really exciting, that there are drugs being tested now for MND, which is long overdue.
Phil Friend 32:19
And I mean, he sounds he was very determined, wasn't he, to change things. He wanted to see things change on on the accessibility front, but also on the MND front and the technology front. I mean, you may be aware of this, but I mean Apple now you can have your own voice recorded like matter of course. Now it's just, you know, and I can remember the days when people had head pointers, and, you know, doing this with a keyboard. Goodness me. He sounds remarkable Kiki. He sounds like a remarkable guy.
Kiki Mcdonald 32:57
And he, he was, he was a great mix of being wise and good fun. So I used to go to him, If I had a for a real issue, I'd go and chat to you, and he'd type something up that would be exactly the right answer. I would always feel so I really miss that
Simon Minty 33:18
when someone is non verbal there's always that sort of it can take a little bit of a little bit longer to speak and so on. I remember when I did meet him, and it took a little while, but then, I mean, luckily, it was all comedy, and he we, I said something, and he got a big smile, and I'm like, okay, yeah, we connected. And the smile is a quick way you get straight through. And I love it. Now I have a another question, I have a non disabled sister, and as far as I know, Kiki, you don't have a disability, but, and sometimes I find it interesting in terms of being the non disabled sibling of someone with a disability, who did you and always get the attention? How did you feel about that? And and also, my sister doesn't give me a lot of slack around my disability, and I like that you allowed to your family. You like, Oh, come on, or whatever it might be. So how was it being I want this about you in your own right, but how was it being you and sister?
Kiki Mcdonald 34:21
Oh, it was great fun. Simon. It really was because we, as I say, we got up to all sorts. And I think through Euan's guide, we've got up to all sorts because we've been out, trying things out and getting up to mischief, really. And I think we, we had a we've we had a lot of fun through it. And I think it's sometimes. I'm not, I'm not saying it's easy. There are some really awful and very difficult moments to go through, but and some situations that were. Dreadful, but we had a lot of fun. And I always remember meeting another family and MND conference and his wife saying that to me. She said, don't, don't forget like me, me and my husband have had a lot of fun, gone and done a lot of a lot of cool stuff together. It doesn't define you that you you having a rotten time, and, yeah, and, and on a very sort of philosophical level, I suppose we I learned a lot as well, because it changes your perspectives on so many, so many things, isn't it? And your priorities, and, yeah, in life, so And often I, I did think, gosh, if he that kind of feeling of, gosh, if he's up for I've got to be up for it. I mean, I he's wanting to go somewhere and, but sad that we couldn't do some of the things we used to, particularly in the early days, absolutely, and, and he was ill at the end and, and, and that that's, that's really tough, and, and I and, and I think, yeah, and I really miss him.
Phil Friend 36:31
So yeah, as we kind of begin to draw to an end, Kiki, you mentioned your website and all the redevelopment that that's going under on that, and that's coming out later in the year. I think what's, what's the next year or two looking like for the organisation? And you, how do you see things developing thinking forwards?
Kiki Mcdonald 36:56
So we the really exciting thing is the new website that's coming out this summer, and then we have the new app coming. We have two new team members who are out writing reviews across the country around transport links, which is just brilliant and lovely to have more people in the team to be able to do some of those sorts of things that we've always wanted to sort of send someone off somewhere to write reviews, which is something we've never been able to do make it easier for people to use. And we've got some new look and feel coming branding wise, and hope that it will mean that we can get out there more get encourage people to share their reviews and their experiences, that more people hear of us. Still, we're still not that well known about, despite being having covered. We've got coverage across the UK, but we don't we do certainly have gaps that we really need people to fill in. So please, please, please do. And I think we want to try and get away from the perception that we are a Scottish organization too. I mean, we are Scottish. We're in what we're based in Edinburgh, but we have always been actually having most of our content outside Scotland, but there is a perception that we are just in Scotland, so really keen for more content everywhere. But if we we can
Phil Friend 38:35
When do you think your next survey will will come out, Kiki
Kiki Mcdonald 38:40
the next one, so it will launch again in the autumn. So for calling for people to fill out the survey. So please do do that, because the more voices, the better. And then we usually publish the results of the access survey each spring time, right, re March time right.
Simon Minty 39:04
And one stat was 7% of respondents felt the current government could possibly help, which meant over 90% didn't think the current government was going to help. In terms of access, we've talked about what individuals can do. But you also mentioned businesses could do more. If there was one or two things you would like businesses to do? What would that be?
Kiki Mcdonald 39:27
Is to share their one, share their access information. And we have quite a bit of guidance on the website about if people need a bit of help to do that. So share what you have and what you don't have with. You know, photos go a long way, or video goes a long way, just as you said, Phil earlier, and ask a disabled person to review you so you'll get brilliant feedback if you ask a disabled customer, how are we getting on what could we change? And that may actually not. Cost you very much. You might be things that you could, could could implement that would would help we, on a personal level, I think it'd be wonderful if you could get some kind of grant, government grant, or even loan scheme for small businesses to make adaptations, even if it is for a portable ramp, which doesn't cost very much, or making adaptations to their low or what have you. I'm not saying at all that everything is affordable, or necessarily cheap, but there are things that can be done that are in many cases. There are smaller adaptations that people can make, where something like a government loan or grant scheme would be fabulous,
Phil Friend 40:47
It would also generate more jobs and generate more growth, something the governments madly keen on,
Kiki Mcdonald 40:52
absolutely. And I think in terms of, yeah, it's a it's a goal for for you know, around accessibility, in terms of to places, is such a huge factor for so many things, in terms of education, employment, aside from the whole well being piece and getting out and about, which is essential for everybody, and it's it would have huge positive effects in all of those areas if we were to spend a bit of time and money on it.
Simon Minty 41:32
Most of the places I visit, they are, I mean, still going back to physical access. I think we gotta be really cautious of the broad church that is disability access. But, um, if they're accessible, I use them. One isn't, is my dentist, and so I call them when I'm three minutes away, I scoot there, and so I'm just around the corner. And then they put the ramp out, and they know to do it straight away. They're not I don't have to wait 10 minutes, um, and bear in mind, they hit me for 400 quid on my last visit. And also, I go three times a year, whatever, they've got their money back. I mean, there's absolutely and it's a faff. It irks me that I even have to call them. But
Kiki Mcdonald 42:12
could they not put a bell or, like, could they not do something that a different solution, that you don't have to call them? I don't know anyway. Sorry, that's a minor thig
Simon Minty 42:21
No, I should do a review, but then I would have to wait outside while they come to it. It's, I'm calling them, because when I turn the corner, I want the ramp to be there, and it is. I mean, it always is, but it's what's my point, that business case as well. And once I'm inside, they're lovely. That's the other part. I so I will put up with the inconvenience because I like the service,
Kiki Mcdonald 42:44
and that's a huge part of it. I think it's probably two things. I mean one, one is that I think people forget as well that, yeah, one, disabled people have a lot of money spend big customer base, and then from the hospitality and the everyday, essential stuff, they also do have family and like everyone else, and we have a bit of a laugh about that, and the team that shock, horror, disabled people actually have friends and go out and stuff. And you know that we chose our mum had a big birthday Christmas time last year, and we'd planned it and and booked somewhere based around, you know, could you join us and be part of it? So that's a big booking that was made because
Phil Friend 43:35
it happens to me all the time. I've got four kids and six grandchildren, and we go places, and we go on holiday together, and we do all sorts of crazy stuff. And I am the focus of the first bit of the booking, which is, is it accessible? And if it isn't, we're not going there. It's as simple as that. And I don't I had to give up my dentist because I, once I got in a power chair, I couldn't get them into the building at all. So yeah, I mean, but I think we better bring things to a close to but I suppose the call out, the shout out for our listeners, is very clear to me, Kiki, that we need to be better at filling in the forms and doing the app and making sure that we're giving you information. That's the first thing I can do. Me personally, I can do that even if it's just one absolutely and I'm always banging on about how there isn't enough of it, and yet here I sit not having filled in a un form for quite a while. So I need to do that, but I think it's also important that the app that you're bringing out later will make it even easier for me to do that. But the other message is that there's a lot of other people out there that could help with this, if they focus their minds on it. And what pleases me so much is that all that work that Euan and you began all those years ago is still going strong, and if anything, it's getting better and better remarkable. Yeah, thank you. Phil, yeah, not at all. And it's been lovely to meet you. I've. Met you
Kiki Mcdonald 45:00
before, so this is, oh, I hope that is that changes over the next. Yes, well, you never know. Well,
Phil Friend 45:06
thank thank you for me anyway,
Simon Minty 45:08
thank you, Kiki. It's been lovely to speak to you properly and long form and hear about your work and and the team, as you quite rightly say, and obviously you and and we miss him from afar, so and I'm very excited that I will meet some of you and the team at the Abnormally Funny People show in Edinburgh at the fringe. Uh, that'll be awesome.
Phil Friend 45:30
Yeah, don't forget to take your tomatoes. Kiki, oh,
Kiki Mcdonald 45:36
I've seen them before. Phil, they're brilliant.
Phil Friend 45:39
I know I have too. And they are brilliant. You're quite right.
Simon Minty 45:42
ll a bit too late. Mr. Friend. Thank you, Kiki.
Kiki Mcdonald 45:45
You're most welcome.
Phil Friend 45:46
Thanks, Kiki, thanks.
Announcer 45:50
This is The Way We Roll, presented by Simon Minty and Phil Friend. You can email us at mintyand friend@gmail.com or just search for minty and friend on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai